COMMUNITY SPOTLIGHT: Marcus Mam
Marcus Mam is a renowned fashion photographer with an impressive body of work seen on the pages of Vogue and The New York Times. He’s collaborated with major brands including Moschino, Adidas, Sephora, Ugg, H&M, and more.
In a recent career pivot, Marcus has embarked on a new artistic venture. He’s now the proud owner of Makers and Clay, a pottery studio nestled in the heart of Monrovia, California. In this interview, he talks about his creative journey, reflects on personal reinvention, and speaks to the joys of building community.
"I feel like I'm reconnecting with some of that mental state. I’m feeling like there is the infinite possibility that's associated with being, you know, 20 years old."
What has been your creative journey? You've gone through finding your place in the fashion photography world which is already a highly competitive industry to be in, to taking an even bolder risk of opening up your own business. Tell us more about that.
In the beginning, I moved to Paris and dove into the fashion photography world which I literally had nothing to do with before. I liken it to being like my cat. And I remember when she was a kitten, I could take her to the vet with me without a carrier, no leash on, and we'd go to the park together and she would just hang out with me on my blanket. But then I noticed that with cats, the older that they get the more aware they become of potential dangers in the world and so the more cautious they become.
I was like the kitten. I had no fear. I wasn't aware of all of the lows that would come along. You're not really thinking about that, you're just going for it.
Then, when I did a career change and opened up my own business, I reconnected with some of that mental state. I feel like there is the infinite possibility that's associated with being, you know, 20 years old. But now I'm going to be 50 in a couple months. On one hand, I feel like it's great to tap into that again. But then on the other hand, I do have a lot more awareness and with awareness comes a bit of extra fear.
"...anxiety can be seen as a superpower. It is what propels people into action because you literally feel like the decisions you make, they're not casual decisions, you feel like your life is on the line. So, when I set out to do something there's that amount of pressure that I put on myself in order to make it happen because it feels like the only other option, or if I don't succeed, I will in some way die."
At 50, the act of reinventing and starting a new venture is really exciting and inspiring. There are a lot of people older and younger who I think feel: this the path I’m on, I can’t turn back now.
I'm not wired for that at all. I guess the advantage that I have is that I've learned recently that I definitely have anxiety. I’ve been told that anxiety can be seen as a superpower because it is what propels people into action. You literally feel like your life is on the line with the decisions you make. So, when I set out to do something there's that amount of pressure that I put on myself in order to make it happen because it feels like the only option, or if I don't succeed, I will in some way die.
"From the outside people can perceive you as having a degree of success, when what you're actually experiencing is quite different."
And that's a huge amount of pressure. From the outside people can perceive you as having a degree of success, when what you're actually experiencing is quite different.
30 years working as a fashion photographer, every winter break would come and things would wrap up for the season, I’d wonder if I’d ever get another job again.
Even though the jobs still came, I knew that it didn’t mean that this industry was going to continue to be there for me especially since the industry I knew totally shifted. Before, you could have a career and think, “This is what I do and I'm going to do it until I retire and it's going to support me and my family and my children.” For most people these days, that doesn't exist anymore.
In some cases, It's really not about quality anymore. It's about having that image break into every single format so it's not about making the best image. For some, it's just about disseminating product.
"You should be in service to others and think about working on things that are bigger than you."
You mentioned that with photography, you were always worried about the next job and the anxiety that comes with it. Does that fear or motivation feel different with what you're doing now?
It's vastly different. I don't feel that anymore. I don't have to hustle and sell myself like I did before. With fashion, you have to be relevant. You have to be at the right places. You have to be friends with the right people. That’s all fine, but at my age now, I just don't have the energy to do it anymore.
I had to be the thing they wanted me to be. I had to seduce people. I had to show up at places. But now I am a pottery studio owner. It's really not about me anymore. I'm creating a service for other people.
I think a lot about those cliches and one that resonated with me was: You should be in service to others and think about working on things that are bigger than you. When the opportunity to open a studio came along, I already had this mental checkbox for things that I was aspiring towards. That just made this opportunity easy for me to identify when it ended on my lap.
"My first chapter was about trying to cultivate a voice and have a seat at the table, places I otherwise would not have had access to..."
"I just like to be stimulated by people who gravitate towards a common bond rooted in creativity."
My first chapter was about trying to cultivate a voice and have a seat at the table, places I otherwise would not have had access to. I like to experience things from different cultures and different socio economic groups. I'm not only aspiring to take a peek at the people at the top, I'm deeply interested in everybody. When I was younger, I think the motivation was to access these people and places just to satiate my curiosity.
Relating to people comes very naturally to me, and I think it’s because I’m mixed race. I was really young when the rest of my family from Cambodia went to France and Singapore, and a lot of my family ended up immigrating as well to Ohio.
In the first few years of my life, I thought I was an American from Ohio. And then suddenly I was surrounded by all these family members speaking a language that I didn’t know or they spoke in broken English. And so, when I would speak with my Black family, I take on that Southern Ohio Kentucky way of speaking. When I spoke with my Asian family members, I naturally spoke in broken English.
It was always just natural for me to adapt to different people. I think it made it easier for me as an adult because I never had that conflicting feeling of, “Am I being myself? Am I being my authentic self?”
I never aspired to be a fashion photographer. I went to art school to be surrounded by creative people. I became a fashion photographer because I thought those people in Paris who were involved in the fashion world were creative and interesting people.
And now with the Pottery studio, once again, I'm putting myself in an environment where I can be of service to them, but they're also serving me in some way. I just like to be stimulated by people who gravitate towards a common bond rooted in creativity.
It is important for my studio to feel very inclusive for people. I don't want it to feel clicky. I want cool hipster people to feel like this is their studio in the same way that some 75 year old retiree does.
"Pottery is just tangible. You're putting your hands on something, you're making something. It goes through this very specific process. It's pretty simple at the end of the day."
"...there's an extra surge of these practices that reconnect us. I think that has been in our DNA for thousands of years... craft and returning to old processes are so appealing to people right now."
I find it interesting that digital photography and digital media aren't tangible at the end of the day. Pottery is the opposite. It's literally crafted with your hands and you can use it. You can hold it. Did that contrast play a factor in your interest in pottery?
It's funny you say that because I did attempt to pivot a few years ago. I worked with coders and developed an app. And, like most apps, it failed. But, we did raise money and for a second it felt like we were onto something. I mean, the thing that we developed was a good thing, but all that to say, I put a lot of energy into that. It was exhausting.
Then I had to make the hard decision to close it. Over the years, I realized that experience helped me identify pottery. I wanted to go in the polar opposite direction of where the digital world was going. To frame this in contrast with fashion photography, I know with 100 percent certainty that I am putting my energy into something that people actually need and want.
Pottery is just tangible. You're putting your hands on something, you're making something. It goes through this very specific process. It's pretty simple at the end of the day.
We're all grappling with where technology is taking us, we're all dealing with the fact that we're spending so much time on our screens. I think that that's why there's an extra surge of these practices that reconnect us. I think that has been in our DNA for thousands of years. I think that's why craft and returning to old processes are so appealing to people right now.
What has been the most challenging thing with this venture?
I would say the most challenging thing, same with any business, is money. You can have the best ideas, but it doesn't matter if you can't finance them. I'm lucky that I'm single and I don't have kids. I'm very nimble.
In the last few years while I was working full time as a photographer, I knew in my heart I wanted to shift out. I didn't want to end my run with no money in the bank, and the reality was, I would do all these prestigious jobs and I got paid decently for them, but then at the same time, I'm living in Paris, one of the most expensive cities in the world. Working in fashion surrounded by fashion people it's normalized to spend. You have to look the part.
It's an industry that's very much this perpetual carrot on the end of the stick. They say, “Hey, you know, we don't really have much of a budget right now, but if you do this, we'll have projects for you down the line.” Or they’d always try to play cards like, “It's just going to be for Instagram.” And I'm like, Instagram has more visibility than billboards on Sunset Boulevard! I've been hearing this for my whole career. When I started getting hardcore in standing my ground for my pay, I got the rates changed drastically. So all that time, it was always there to give.
I had this large three bedroom, two bathroom apartment in Hancock Park and I just bounced and moved to Monrovia and put all my things in storage. Now I'm renting a room in a condo with roommates. If you want to frame that as being like one of the challenges, sure. But actually, for me, I don't feel I'm any less happy living here than I was in my bigger apartment on the island.
"...it's probably not wise to identify with anything career related - like “I am a photographer.” If any of those things crumble then you're in a real existential crisis because that's going to be your whole identity that gets flushed down the toilet."
What advice do you have for anyone looking to make a big change or take a big risk? What would you say to them?
My advice is to focus on the most fundamental things. I've learned that it's probably not wise to identify with anything career related - like “I am a photographer.” If any of those things crumble then you're in a real existential crisis because that's going to be your whole identity that gets flushed down the toilet.
When I had my midlife crisis, one of the big things I was asking myself was - what do you have to show for yourself? When you're working as a fashion photographer, creative, or an artist, it's your portfolio, your resume. Oh, I've shot this. I’ve shot this actress, I've worked for this and that magazine. At the end of the day, nobody ultimately cares about that stuff.
The clear answer that came through was that I have friendships that I've cultivated and maintained for decades. I don't burn through friends. That gave me a lot of reassurance and comfort. I was scared, what if this fails? And one of my friends was like, “Well, if it fails, then you'll come and you'll stay with me. Don't worry.” To have somebody say that, to feel like you do have a safety net, that gave me the confidence to keep going
"The technical aspect of pivoting and starting a new business is probably not going to work unless you've done a deeper work underneath it."
This has been years in the making because I've been meditating on these things. Just like, hey, universe, I am open, I want to just live this life to become the best version of myself that I can be. I’m open to go where the universe is wanting to take me.
I think a lot of times for people, it's like, here's step one, step two, step three. But I think the most important things are all those other things behind it. The technical aspect of pivoting and starting a new business is probably not going to work unless you've done a deeper work underneath it.
Align with what you're seeking, what's ultimately important to you. Have that really become crystal clear, so that you can move forward in an authentic way so you don't feel like you're just doing something because it looks like the thing you should be doing.
"...you might be aging out of life as you knew it, but that could be a positive thing. Just look in a completely different direction. Don't try to fit into a situation that doesn't want you. There's going to be lots more opportunities when you let some of those things go."
Is there anything else you would like to share?
Turning 50 is really difficult for people in general, but especially when you are in industries like the ones I was in, it's heightened because it is so youth driven. People start to feel a lot of fear because they're wondering if they're going to be obsolete.
I just would like for people to realize that there are workarounds. Yeah, you might be aging out of life as you knew it, but that could be a positive thing. Just look in a completely different direction. Don't try to fit into a situation that doesn't want you. There's going to be lots more opportunities when you let some of those things go.
ABOUT
MAKERS & CLAY
Makers & Clay is a community ceramic arts studio located in the heart of Monrovia, California, offering memberships, pottery classes, and workshops. Their studio offers a mid-fire ceramics experience, providing a wide range of clay bodies and glazes. Experience the convenience of two banks of pottery wheels, accessible to both members and classes. Additionally, they have handbuilding tables, a slab roller, and an extruder for your use.